(was Re: from Joanne)
HIRENE writes:

> she sent and go through it to see what she actually sent. As for the
> Woodford copy deed, I thought we already had that. Maybe not. Why Woodford
> Co. Ky, I don't know. My history is not very good for right now. I know
that
> KY was a district of VA for some time. Don't remember when the partition
was

1792

> and or/when it was granted statehood on it's own. Also possible reason it
is
> recorded there is that the parties to it lived in KY. In a way that makes
> little sense but in another way maybe it does given the times. I think if
> you showed up in VA with a recorded deed, even if recorded elsewhere it
> would be considered legal and you could probably use it to sell the
property
> or take possession of it in VA. Of course that's just a guess but as

The whole story has a hollow ring to it, as if something was really
wrong. I should mention that there _is_ an incomprehensible notice
in Jefferson court documents in 1807 about a Helm -> unclear
land transfer. I couldn't track it down (I looked thru the 1807 deed
book entry by entry), and I just wrote it off; the minute book was a
WPA-era handwritten transcription, many entries were illegible, there
were gaps &c. I'll put this on the site. But the "unclear" name looked
like "Ronimus" or something like that, which looks like a local Jefferson
Co name. No deed was recorded in that year in Jefferson under that
name or Helm. Maybe it was really some legal term mis-transcribed,
I don't know.

Then we have to ask why was the Helm->Ranson transfer of 1810 recorded
twice, with slightly different participants (Benjamin Helm is missing in 1812
version). Somebody really wanted to make sure the Kentucky Helm and Mott
owners recorded their grant of this land. We must be missing a court case
some place.

> to transfer property. Where's Benjamin? Another I don't know. Maybe he and
> his sister and brother divided the property up among themselves or at
least

I have a feeling they didn't, and perhaps this is an early sign of the
division
we see later, where there Benjamin, his 2 full siblings, and their half
siblings all seem to be estranged from each other and unaware of each
other's current location or state of being.

I wonder if the concept of partition was fully developed then.

> a portion of it since I know they sold some of it together. Another
mystery
> that needs to be solved. Why they would sell property to Thomas Erskine?.
> Again a guess. Could it be that it adjoined land that our Wm sold Thomas E
> before he left for KY? I wonder about that because that land was in

He didn't sell any land to Thomas E Helm in Berkeley Co that I know of;
all the Helm deeds indexed are in the spreadsheet. As far as I know William
Helm
didn't have anything else to sell, not in the area between Evitts run &
Bullskin run anyway. If there's something recorded elsewhere, like
Frederick Co VA superior court, or in a post-dated Berkeley deed that's a
possibility.
Thomas E Helm was pretty young when William & family left for KY
so it seems unlikely he would have owned anything. Nothing appears
for him in Jefferson Co other than this same complicated transaction.


> Joanne and not vice versa. The woodford deed was quoted from Conkright if
I

I struggled thru this book looking for this again; I think I first saw it
just a few months ago when we were looking at early Helm history
at Ramona's request.

p 172 &seq has interesting info in it about Meredith & John Helm,
2 of the older brothers, in the Shelby Co KY area, which bears further
study sometime. It seems to show that elder brother John was
dead about 1780 & Meredtih & William picked up some land associated
with him, as his heirs. We do think he is alive at and just after his
father's death as a John Helm is one of the purchasers of items at
the estate sales. And we've also had some other infromation about
Helm-Harbourt connections that seem tied to him. Well, another day.

p 184 begins the William Helm section.

Here I notice for the 1st time that Conkwright covers the Bath, VA
lot, and mentions that "William Helm sold this lot to James M Wheat,
witnesses to the deed being William Helm Jr, John Hoff and William
Calmes; no wife signed the deed. (Deed Book CC, page 127; acknowledged
in Frederick Court by William Helm August 8, 1810, recorded in Berkeley
Superior Court, Tenth Judicial Circuit, September 23,1811). The
witness William Helm, Jr may have been his first cousin, son of William
Helm[3]."

I will try to get this deed.

I am very doubtful that this lot could have been owned by our William Helm.
He wasn't around to do anything in Aug of 1810, his 3 children have already
declared him dead in Jan 1810 and are selling the land he held in Jefferson
Co during the term of his life! Unless it's post-dated...
it seems more likely it's his uncle William of Frederick Co who held
this all along. Does Virginia Bruch discuss this?

Later in the same page (187) Conkwright says " he was dead before 1810".

Conkwright mentions a suite of William Helm against Franics Hamilton
(Order book 1, p 109) in Berkeley Co in 1772-3. This too seems unlikely
as our William Helm was born in 1760 according to the Joseph Helm Bible
(or perhaps a few years earlier, at most, if you don't believe it :^).

Ok, the matter in question:
p 190-191
"After the death of Margaret Rankin Helm, the land bequeathed her by her
father
was leased to George A Kittenburger [sic] by her husband, William Helm,
the lease to run during his life. (Deeds of her son, Thomas, and her daughter
Elizabeth Mott, November 23, 1807, Woodford County Ky Deed Book D,
page 338) The second wife of William Helm was Aggie...."

Mentioned again on p 192 bracketing William Helm's date of death as
between 27 Mar 1806 & 23 Nov 1807, "when his children, Thomas Helm
and Elizabeth Mott, deeded land which had belonged to his first
wife and had been leased after her death for the period of his life. ([same
Woodford citation])"

> remember correctly and using it, if I remember correctly we were able to
> locate that actual deed.

Think we will have to get this deed from the Woodford county records....

I looked ahead to the entry about Thomas Erskine Helm (begins p 195?).
The 1807 deed is discussed p 197-8 and mentions he bought this
Jefferson Co land from his nephew & niece. I don't think I've read this
passage in Conkwright before. It suggests that Thomas Helm (William's
son) is already living in Hopkins, KY, too. This page goes on to describe
both the 1810 & 1812 deeds of this same Jefferson Co land. Later,
I'll scan & post these references to the site (after I get back, that is).